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 Debunk that Theory! 

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 Debunk that Theory! 
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Post Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Let's play a game! At this moment in time the opinion is out on a new feature of the site I want to get started. Yes, I'm aware my other staffer jobs aren't quite exploding with content, but shush :P. This topic will act as a place to suggest those theories about Zelda and the Zelda Timeline that you aren't convinced of.

I, with help from others if they so wish, will draft up an article reviewing this timeline, reasons why it exists and (hopefully for you the suggest..ee?) why it just doesn't work.

First of all: you can start submitting theories as soon as you like, though I am looking for your insight. Is this a good idea? Would you be interested in seeing something like this as a feature of Exploding Deku Nut?

I want YOU to answer. :P

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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:19 pm
Sounds like a great idea to me.

My theory is that Phantom hourglass ends one half of the split timeline. As in, there is no way to move forward short of another Pirate/Tetromino/WW Link game. (In my mind, spirit tracks DOES NOT count because it's downright ridiculous. I mean, trains? Really? WTH Nintendo?)

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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:31 pm
Yes, trains are quite unusual....I mean.....technology evolving from steam powered boats to steam powered engines? Who has ever HEARD of such nonsense?!! (The preceding was a sarcastic statement).


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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:35 pm
Alright, I amend what I said.
Phantom Hourglass was silly too. Also, where the the land to drive the trains on come from?

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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:35 pm
It a completely new land. After the events of PH stuff happened....and then Tetromino's crew found a new land mass to colonize and start a new Kingdom....and so they did......


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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:56 pm
Basically, after PH, they found Hyrule. The Hyrule that King Daphnes wished for them to have at the end of Wind Waker. I'm sure a lot of us craved more for a game that told us how Tetromino and Link conquered Hyrule/found it or something along those lines, but that's what happened--we got ST. (And yeah, this is completely canon too...)

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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:45 pm
...Alright, you guys got me. (Nontheless, I still think it's silly)

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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:30 pm
I've seen what people thought of the timeline, and I wonder, how can Legend of Zelda (game) and Adventure of Link come after ST?

LoZ and AoL take place in Hyrule right? Then why would the people of New Hyrule move back to the Old Hyrule? The Hyrule in LoZ and AoL can't be New Hyrule because everything has changed. There's Death Mountain, and other Hyrule places (I think Zora's Domain and Lake Hylia were there) which weren't in ST.

Also, at the end of WW, didn't Hyrule get flooded and Ganondorf turned into stone and pretty much die? (Did he die?) Then how does he come in LoZ?

There's also technology in it. There are railroads and hot air balloons. Then how come they don't appear in LoZ and AoL?



There's too many things that don't add up. So I think that LoZ and AoL cannot be a sequel to ST. So can someone explain to me how it's possible for them to come after ST?

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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:39 am
I personally have NEVER heard that LoZ and AoL were after ST, that sounds silly :P

Although Ninten*, Hyrule was ALREADY flooded in Wind Waker :P It's just the Hyrule Castle area underwater (and that Ganon Castle) that flooded....

Also I don't think Ganondorf 'died' as much as he was 'sealed away' (like always), so it would just take the seal to be broken again for him to return :P


Also, the thing about ST....if LoZ DID come after ST, I assume that it either took place back in the Wind Waker setting with everything being 'un-flooded' or it happened in New Hyrule (or somewhere else with the right landmarks). And HEY, LoZ looked like a lot of wilderness....if anything, they just found a new location that happened to have temples and monsters everywhere :P


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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:27 am
OK then, one more thing. I don't exactly understand how people think that MC can come before OoT. Could someone explain that to me? I haven't played OoT, but I did play MC. If that helps.

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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:40 am
Well, I'm really not really an expert in timelines and whatnot, however I DO like to express my thoughts.

I played played OoT and MC and I really don't remember any pertinent details that could link the two, although what I DID find was that the world maps were somewhat similar:

OoT: http://www.freewebs.com/ack!!!/hyrule.jpg

MC: http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/GBA/LegendO ... Hyrule.png


I'm sure other people can give you info on topics such as the connection between the Four Sword and the Master Sword, but I ain't the one to be able to do that in my current state :P


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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:52 pm
All right. Since I started this topic I'll weigh in on the few bits introduced this last... long while.


Technology in Zelda: Trains in Spirit Tracks certainly made a lot of fans cringe, with good reason as they seem so out of place in the Zelda Universe. However, no one much peeped about steamboats in Phantom Hourglass, despite their mass arrival in history in the late 1700s, with Trains soon being developed in the early 19th. But the one thing to quell any complaining about technology being too advanced for Zelda, and it is a point I've heard many times and repeated myself: there are telephones in Link's Awakening, and those have hardly been questioned. :p

Masterbx and Tetromino covered how the New Hyrule works out and exists, so that doesn't need to be repeated.

When school finally stops weeding its way through my entire life I'll continue my series about the physical landscapes of Hyrules and how they can help find out timeline placements... so not just are the Hyrule's of TMC and OoT similar, I can elaborate information wise on to why the game predates Ocarina.

Minish Cap Before Ocarina of Time?:The accepted image of a Hero was of a man garbed in green, with blonde hair... but no cap. After you complete your journey with Ezlo and save the world, normal Ezlo creates a hat for you, remarking that it seems to fit you perfectly. I take this as a hint that this begins the shift of the typical image of the 'Hero of Hyrule' toward a man/boy dressed in green garb. I argue that this was the inspiration for the classical image of the Kokiri, and not the other way around as Ocarina appears to suggest. If you look at the design of the Minish, there are many places where one can say the Green Tunic look could have come from...

But beyond just that moment in the game, the Four Sword/Picori Blade and the Master Sword can be used to argue for this too... with a lot of trouble.

We know that the Four Sword's original name is the Picori Blade, a gift bestowed to the Hylians along with the 'Light Force' long before The Minish Cap. We also know that the Four Sword and the Master Sword exist in at least one timeline together, the Child Timeline (if you accept ALTTP as being in the Child Timeline). This comes from a longer chain of events. In Four Swords Adventures the game ends with Ganon revealing himself with his Trident as being the mastermind behind Vaati's latest attack. You defeat him and seal him into the Four Sword. All is well, for now.

In A Link to the Past's port, where any details changed should now be considered canon, you find the shattered Four Sword (which suggest Ganon broke his seal very physically) within Ganon's Pyramid. Further, each shard seems to house left over dark energy from the Dark Mirror... or game maker's felt more Dark/Shadow Link was needed in the franchise. It can then be assumed that the Master Sword was either created or rediscovered while Ganon remained in this seal. Skyward Sword may help us solve this mystery.


The problem that comes with that detail, is that A Link to the Past certainly happens after Ocarina of Time... but sealed Beast Ganon with his Trident did not manifest himself between the sealing within the Four Sword, and his attempts at taking over the Light World in ALTTP. How did Ganon/dorf exist in Ocarina of Time? My head explodes too. :P



Ganondorf's fate after Wind Waker: This one is the most vague of them all. During his first monologue atop his Tower, you find out that he wanted Hyrule not entirely out of a lust for power, but his envy of the land itself. He grew up in the Desert where the winds were harsh and brought death and dismay... Hyrule was lush and beautiful, calm and lively. After stabbing poor Ganny in the head with the Master Sword, he chuckles quietly and exclaims that 'the winds are blowing'. You can take this for a multitude of things, I personally accept that it likely alludes to Ganondorf dying, as the winds of his land brought death, but expanding on that idea, the winds of Hyrule were peaceful.

Maybe his comment meant he was dying and was going to be at peace? He seemed rather tortured by the end of all this trouble. Food for thought, right?


LoZ and AoL's placement: Currently there is only one article in the Deku University on the Main Site, as I have not revised the previous articles, and this article talks a bit about how geography can give us hints on timeline placements. From the landmarks, I support that both games are in the Child Timeline, and take place very much in the future beyond Twilight Princess. Check it out for better details/more details.



All in all, I think I've covered most things brought up so far in my own manner. I think a new theory that might be developing is the existence of multiple Ganondorfs. I support that there are, at the very least, two (not created by the split either). Maybe one and a half. As there exists a Dark version of Link, there could be a different 'edition' of Ganondorf. As we've seen in a few games, Beast Ganondorf is NOT consistent. The design of Ocarina's and Twilight Princess's are very similar, but that of A Link to the Past, Four Swords Adventures, and Classic Zelda are completely different. We know that the Dark World twists Ganondorf's shape into one particular design, as ALTTP and FSA involve said change. The art of The Legend of Zelda depicts Ganon with a Trident... so I support that they are all the same Ganon.

If a 'Dark' Ganondorf could exist in some manner, that could help us bridge how there is a Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time where FSA likely takes place before, when he is supposed to be sealed away until A Link to the Past... but it seems silly :P.


I'm rambling now, forgive me, but this is all I can spare for the timeline anymore :p. Food for thought again: picture Ganondorf having a 'Darker' form like Dark Link, and that Malladus might be the remnants of such after he dies/sealed beneath the Ocean in WW... as the combination with Cole results in a very Ganon-like design. Just think about it, I guess.

Fin D:

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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:40 pm
I know i'm a little late to this timeline party, but i'd like to hop in, and i'd also just like to point out that it's REALLY hard to say wind waker isn't ganondorf's actual death. That's implying that he broke out of the stone, took the sword OUT of his brain, hyrule unflooded, everyone migrated from mountains back down to hyrule, and then history repeated itself AFTER ALL THAT. Sure I guess it's possible, but is it extremely stupid? Yes. So idk, I just wouldn't even consider saying there's more after wind waker-spirit tracks unless there was some giant piece of evidence in our face stating otherwise.

Also, I don't think game design is ever a big piece of evidence. I think developers use the map they want to use, use the items they want to use, incorporate this and that just because they want to and that it's how they want to make a game and make money. But, it's the storyline and the general concept of the game which drives the entire timeline, in my opinion. So saying that this map looks like this one and this item was like this one could be, as far as we know, absolutely NO evidence. Over the course of 20 years, people obviously change or don't change their mind about certain details, so what's the use analyzing something that could easily just be a developer's opinion on what seemed better?

I think what we should do is go through in order of game's release, and go in order of what they were thinking as they made the games. For example, in 1987 they made the first zelda. then in 1988 they made zelda II, intending it to be a direct sequel. Then comes Link to the Past, and then we can ask ourself, was it supposed to be a prequel, or a sequel? And so on. And you just keep asking yourself, where did they want to stick this game during that period of time. Before, after or in between something?


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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:52 pm
OK, but I'm still not convinced of how MC could be before OoT. I know that the Master Sword and the Four Sword/ Picori Blade are in the same timeline (since I believe that the MC saga goes into the Child Timeline). As for Link's hat, at the beginning of MC, it showed the Hero of Men without a hat. But there could be other reasons for that. His hat could have been stolen, blown off, decided not to where a hat, etc. In OoT, the Kokiri were wearing the tunic. The Kokiri tunic was pretty much the outfit that the Hero of Time had worn.

ZE, what do you mean that Ganondorf discovered the Master Sword in the Sacred Realm from OoT to ALttp? Wasn't the Master Sword in the Lost Underwoods at the time?

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Post Re: Debunk that Theory! • Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:56 pm
Ninten*, I think you might have got confused with the huge block of text, believe me, I certainly was trying to write it :P.

I think this is the part you're talking about:

In A Link to the Past's port, where any details changed should now be considered canon, you find the shattered Four Sword (which suggests Ganon broke his seal very physically) within Ganon's Pyramid. Further, each shard seems to house left over dark energy from the Dark Mirror... or game maker's felt more Dark/Shadow Link was needed in the franchise. It can then be assumed that the Master Sword was either created or rediscovered while Ganon remained in this seal. Skyward Sword may help us solve this mystery.

This was working off of the idea that two powerful swords need not exist in Hyrule if the Picori Blade/Four Sword was still around waiting to be used. In A Link to the Past you find the remnants of the Four Sword, belonging to Ganon as he had been sealed away in it at the end of Four Swords Adventures. Either Ganon completely shrugged this seal off, ignored it to be sealed in the Sacred Realm in Ocarina of Time, break out, attack again, then get sealed away in Beast Form... you get the idea.

It's a cluster of way too many details. But the Master Sword can maybe help us along. In Four Swords Adventures there is no hint of the Master Sword existing in this Universe as of yet. Obviously with Skyward Sword predating Ocarina, this might completely retcon (see mess up even more horribly) the Swords Debate. I hope so...

But yes, I had said that the Master Sword was created (or rediscovered) while Good Ole Ganondorf was stuck in the Sacred Realm. In the prologue of ALTTP you find out only Seven Sages sealed Ganondorf away, so the Master Sword might possibly not have been created until afterwards. Which we know can't be true since ALTTP is its last use... So the Master Sword must have existed (as Skyward Sword has revealed to us) previously.

Where it was for so long, we may never know... ;/

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