Once again I feel that the Randomly Rambling Board is a far more appropriate place for philosophy. According to the rules on resurrection, I've decided to start a new philosophy channel, right here, right now.

So, here's the buzz: topics that are tickling your brain buds are to come here and entice all those willing to seriously discuss the issue... or... not so seriously. Bonus points for doing both at once.

Remember kids, nobody likes to have their ideas just bluntly shot down, so be forgiving and kind, but that doesn't necessarily mean back down.

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Awright, so, due to a discussion in the shout-box today I thought I'd start off with some basic views on religion and logic. The question on everybody's lips: what can we know?

Descartes says that we can truly know that we are, purely by the fact that we think (cogito ergo sum for you ancient Romans in the audience). The reasoning here is that if you can think then you must exist to be able to think. Taken from a slightly different angle, if one does not exist, it becomes most difficult to think.

So, I think that reasoning is pretty sound, but if you disagree, please, chime in. The next natural direction then is what else can we know? The argument that the world might not be what it seems is pretty sound too in my opinion. It is wholly conceivable that some being is tricking us at every moment, making us think we see a fish when really it is just a very convincing cardboard cut-out. Basic reasoning tells us that everything around us could very well be a lie... so how can we come to know anything about ourselves? Well, Descartes thinks he can tell us that too, which funnily brings us to the next topic: God.

How can we come to know of the existence of God if we can't even come to know if there is a banana on a table? Since I've been very diplomatic, I guess I'll have to throw something in the works here, at least a little bit... I propose that we can never come to know if God exists. I think it defies reason and logic honestly. So there.

Now, if I've forgotten something, feel free to remind me. Have at it kids.

You just need to believe/have faith that He/She exists

And what's there to lose if you do believe? Turns out being a christian/catholic actually means trying to be a good person and not doing anything wrong, and is there something wrong with that?

Plus the words "reason" and "logic" were created by humans. And also the internet, and computer viruses.

I believe the issue here is whether one actually does need to have faith. I personally think there is no way, if there is a God, that he could be like the one in the bible. As such, I feel I should not believe in that one on a moral basis.

Speaking of which, it is conceivable that there is in fact something something to lose: freedom. Consider that one has four options: not eating pie, not eating pie while having to stand on one leg, eating pie and eating pie while having to stand on one leg. I feel that a person can be a good person without having to be constrained by the laws of a specific religion. Lev Yilmaz makes this point in his series 'Tales of Mere existence', specifically this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeLr2oEl ... ure=relmfu (well worth a look in my opinion).

And, forgive me for just having at your points because I am so glad you decided to share your opinions with us all , but I'm going to have to make a point on that last bit too... yes, we did indeed make those words... but just because we made the word for rock doesn't mean we made the rock. See, logic and reason are inherent laws of our reality, at least to some degree, and as such can be considered to have existed long before we got around to slapping tags on them. I know you weren't saying anything to the contrary, I just thought I'd make a point. ^^;

All valid points my good sir, thank you again for bringing them up.

Hah hah, awright folks, keep 'em coming!